Um, let's work backwards. What do you
make of Sergey Lavrov's comments today
saying Europeans are trying to undermine
any progress?
>> Well, what Russia is really worried
about um is the unity of Western
European nations uh the the primary the
major NATO allies who flock to
Washington DC in order to support
President Zilinski.
uh and um this way the you know the
Russians really are looking u to divide
and disrupt any the formation of any
meaningful alliance. Uh no wonder that
that Lavrov is accusing the Europeans of
uh you know with with the typical
Russian you know propaganda language of
um trying to disrupt the peace process.
There is no peace process. Of course,
neither Putin nor his uh regime are
actually willing to engage in any any
peace activities. They yesterday they
actually launched a heavy bombard
bombardment across Ukraine hitting the
western most Ukrainian city and an
American company which was um
effectively destroyed there. Um so the
root cause is um a effectively a
propaganda mantra that the Russian
leadership has been using uh to to try
to accuse both Ukraine, NATO and Western
Europe for somehow provoking the war.
The root causes of the war is Russia's
imperialism that tries to extinguish the
uh existence of the of a independent and
sovereign Ukrainian state. Uh this
should show demonstrate to us all that
Russia the Russian position hasn't
budged u you know a single jot um a
single inch from 202122
and the stumble process which they keep
referring to which would mean the
removal of any vestigages of sovereignty
and independent foreign defense policy
for for Ukraine. But some of the
European leaders, not least German
leader, French leader, wanted to discuss
a ceasefire when they're in Washington
DC. Something that Donald Trump doesn't
necessarily think needs to happen.
>> Well, Trump uh says that he didn't want
to engage in this type of discussion
because Putin said that he's opposed to
a ceasefire uh as opposed to moving
directly to a peace process. It's the
most absurd and ridiculous uh
proposition because as we all know from
from the history of uh countless
conflicts, you know, going back to the
Yugoslav wars and others, you must have
a ceasefire whether it's agreed upon or
whether it's enforced by uh by NATO, by
a coalition of the willing or or whoever
wants to get involved. And then after
many months, many years, sometimes you
could have a real uh just and and and
fair peace. U everything else is just a
propaganda trap semantics that the
Kremlin has been using uh from day one
to actually confuse the meanings and and
divide and and and as I said, divide and
and slow down the Western response.
>> But really, Mark, are we at a point in
time where there's an awful lot being
said on both sides? You say it's
propaganda from the Russian side, but
there's a lot being talked about from
the Europeans and the coalition and the
willing and not necessarily the action
to back up any material change in the
situation.
>> Yeah. The problem here, of course, is
that the Europeans really want to help.
Um they don't have the uh the industrial
means unfortunately. We have to to be
honest to ourselves. They don't have the
not yet. Europe is waking up, of course,
Germany and others trying to rebuild
their defense industries, but at this
point um without the supplies of uh
American weapons and not only that, but
also intelligence um targeting um data
and others, the Europeans would not be
able to fully kind of fill the gap of of
a meaningful, you know, and creating a
meaningful um um cohesive western
response. That's the problem that I see.
And
>> and and Donald Trump did talk about a US
security guarantee. Details of what that
is and how it might work seem to be
scanted. And the Russians have responded
saying that if there's any discussion of
a security situation in Ukraine, they
need to be part of that discussion as
well. But again, no genuine movement
forward with what that could look like,
how it might bring an end to the war.
Well, you know, to put it simply, the
wolf is trying to uh to to to offer, you
know, his services to secure the uh you
know, the life and and well-being of the
sheep in the in the you know, in the on
the in the farm. I mean, I'm sorry for
using this simplistic language, but
that's that's what it looks like. Uh, of
course the Russians Russians are going
to try to inject themselves into any any
future um any future security
arrangement which is of course um you
know impossible to to push through to
push down the throats of the Ukrainians.
They would never agree to have Russians
or probably even Chinese and others um
on on their soil. The only thing they
want is a article 5 type guarantees. I
frankly don't know how this is going to
happen if there's no boots on the ground
in Ukraine. Uh the best the the West
could try to do is to close the skies
which Ukraine has been asking from day
one. Uh really a that would mean that
would make a huge difference. At least
Russia won't be able to terrorize the
civilian population. Uh but but without
military muscle on the ground um any any
talk about article 5 is frankly
irresponsible because it'll give um
really unrealistic expectations that
won't be backed by any any muscle by any
any serious force.
>> Yes. Look Mark just to finish off
obviously there's been a lot of focus on
European allies coalition the willing US
and obviously Vladimir Vladimir Zensky
of of Ukraine. Just to finish off
though, what about the other approach?
We've seen Donald Trump threaten India
for example with uh tariffs to punish it
for buying Russian goods. What about the
back channels to China as well? Surely
they could play a big part in this uh
bringing about the end of this war.
Trump likes uh uh punishing the weak
weaker or the actors that he thinks are
weaker or weakest. In this case, instead
of punishing directly Russia or instead
of imposing similar sanctions on China,
he's hitting at the um at a country that
he thinks would not be able to respond.
Um and it's also upending over of course
quarter of a century of American foreign
policy trying to bring India into the
fold as a democracy and to try to
decouple them from China. By doing doing
this, Trump is actually most likely
going to push them uh into the bricks
fold into the arrangement that's run
primarily by Russia and uh and China.
And we you may have seen the news today
that India is not giving up on on
Russian oil. Why would they after the
red carpet was rolled uh before Putin in
Alaska? So all these countries are
observing what's happening uh and making
and they're making uh you know the their
the conclusions and the conclusions are
unfortunately Trump is soft and weak on
on Russia and on Putin and there won't
be any any real sanctions and any
meaningful actions at least not at this
point.
>> Appreciate getting your uh take on the
current situation Mark Voyer. Thank you
very much indeed. Thank you, Matt.